AFTER the release of the
retained list, Jan
Poortvliet's squad for his
first season in charge of
Saints is starting to take
shape.
With five former first team players
released, two more retiring and a
whole heap of loans having gone back
to their clubs, it is all change - again -
at St Mary's.
That is set to continue as it is expected
at least a few players will be sold
over the summer whilst there may yet
be another signing and a couple of
loans arriving before the big kick-off
at Cardiff on August 9.
With pre-season games now less
than a week away, Poortvliet will be
starting to formulate ideas in his
mind as to who might occupy each
position in his new look team.
Poortvliet's first decision will be
which formation to adopt.
He has hinted at a 4-3-3 which would
be similar to the way Chelsea lined-up
in Jose Mourinho's early days with
two lively wingers off a front man.
Behind that, you have a three-man
central midfield, which could contain
three defensive players or possibly
two holding midfielders and one to
play in behind the front man - Adam
Lallana is the perfect candidate for
that role with David McGoldrick in
the mix as well.
Read a complete breakdown and evaluation of the Saints squad in today's Daily Echo.
9:01am Thursday 3rd July 2008
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CommentPosted by: ossiesaint, at the bar on 9:16am Thu 3 Jul 08
We will miss JW shape!
Posted by: Condor Man, Southampton on 9:21am Thu 3 Jul 08
I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?
I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?
Posted by: Chris Nicholl on 9:38am Thu 3 Jul 08
Midfield and Attack look ok (but that depends on Rasiak, Surman and Saganowski staying) but the defence is even worse than it was at the start of last season.
No right back, no left back. Surman can play at LB, but I hear he doesn't really want to.
No cover in central defence (word is that Viafara is one of those being sold), so it looks very paperthin and we all know what Saints are like with injuries.
Midfield and Attack look ok (but that depends on Rasiak, Surman and Saganowski staying) but the defence is even worse than it was at the start of last season.
No right back, no left back. Surman can play at LB, but I hear he doesn't really want to.
No cover in central defence (word is that Viafara is one of those being sold), so it looks very paperthin and we all know what Saints are like with injuries.
Posted by: Jeff Le Taxi, Southampton on 9:41am Thu 3 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote:
I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?[/quote] I was just thinking the same thing! id love to return to the exciting attacking football of the 80s
The more i hear from Poortvliet the more i like the man!
Condor Man wrote:
I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?
I was just thinking the same thing! id love to return to the exciting attacking football of the 80s
The more i hear from Poortvliet the more i like the man!
Posted by: Barnacle Bill, Somewhere on the high seas on 9:45am Thu 3 Jul 08
Have you got your tickets for Claus's testimonial yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Saints style.
Have you got your tickets for Claus's testimonial yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Saints style.
Posted by: Michael Wilde, Warpville on 9:49am Thu 3 Jul 08
Thanks Rupert .... sorry I mean Bill ... good point!
Well done on sorting out that free playing surface at St Marys for the coming season .... I owe you another bottle of Bolly !
Thanks Rupert .... sorry I mean Bill ... good point!
Well done on sorting out that free playing surface at St Marys for the coming season .... I owe you another bottle of Bolly !
Posted by: Coconut on 10:06am Thu 3 Jul 08
Have you got your tickets for Kid Creole's Mayflower show yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Southampton style.
Have you got your tickets for Kid Creole's Mayflower show yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Southampton style.
Posted by: Positive, Real world on 10:24am Thu 3 Jul 08
I think that the squad is starting to look balanced, in terms of youth and experience plus cover in most positions. I agree with previous posts, slight concern regarding full backs, and would probably like Richard Wright for GK. I am not comfortable with playing midfielders, i.e. Thomas, Wotton or Surman, at full back, due to their lack of natural ability and pace for that position, and would like to see the youngster given a chance or two purchases/loanees brought in. I remain cautiously optimistic and look forward to a decent season, with lots of enthusiasm and effort coming from both the players and we supporters. There might be a couple more comings and goings before kick off, but we are getting tyhere. The board room personnel and strucuture is outside of our immediate influence, so lets just get behind our team. Saints Forever.
I think that the squad is starting to look balanced, in terms of youth and experience plus cover in most positions. I agree with previous posts, slight concern regarding full backs, and would probably like Richard Wright for GK. I am not comfortable with playing midfielders, i.e. Thomas, Wotton or Surman, at full back, due to their lack of natural ability and pace for that position, and would like to see the youngster given a chance or two purchases/loanees brought in. I remain cautiously optimistic and look forward to a decent season, with lots of enthusiasm and effort coming from both the players and we supporters. There might be a couple more comings and goings before kick off, but we are getting tyhere. The board room personnel and strucuture is outside of our immediate influence, so lets just get behind our team. Saints Forever.
Posted by: Positive, Clanger on 10:27am Thu 3 Jul 08
I know that Thomas is not a midfielder, sorry!!
I know that Thomas is not a midfielder, sorry!!
Posted by: titanic on 11:11am Thu 3 Jul 08
Amateur manager with amateur players, well done director of football rupert lowe.
As for Wilde being football chairman what a farce. Stay in Jersey and out of SMS.
Amateur manager with amateur players, well done director of football rupert lowe.
As for Wilde being football chairman what a farce. Stay in Jersey and out of SMS.
Posted by: Saintlygirl, Southampton on 1:26pm Thu 3 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Barnacle Bill[/bold] wrote:
Have you got your tickets for Claus's testimonial yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Saints style. [/quote] I'm not ashamed as I am UNABLE to go - Hubby & I do want to, but we have a baby daughter who is in a routine that we need to bath and feed at the time of the game. If it had been on a Saturday afternoon, like most testamonials are, we could have gone. GUTTED!
Barnacle Bill wrote:
Have you got your tickets for Claus's testimonial yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Saints style.
I'm not ashamed as I am UNABLE to go - Hubby & I do want to, but we have a baby daughter who is in a routine that we need to bath and feed at the time of the game. If it had been on a Saturday afternoon, like most testamonials are, we could have gone. GUTTED!
Posted by: billy 2 baps, Waiting for my whistle on 2:41pm Thu 3 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Saintlygirl[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Barnacle Bill[/bold] wrote: Have you got your tickets for Claus's testimonial yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Saints style. [/quote] I'm not ashamed as I am UNABLE to go - Hubby & I do want to, but we have a baby daughter who is in a routine that we need to bath and feed at the time of the game. If it had been on a Saturday afternoon, like most testamonials are, we could have gone. GUTTED![/quote] Bet she will be wearing her Saint's shirt with pride on the night though :)
Saintlygirl wrote:
Barnacle Bill wrote: Have you got your tickets for Claus's testimonial yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Saints style.
I'm not ashamed as I am UNABLE to go - Hubby & I do want to, but we have a baby daughter who is in a routine that we need to bath and feed at the time of the game. If it had been on a Saturday afternoon, like most testamonials are, we could have gone. GUTTED!
Bet she will be wearing her Saint's shirt with pride on the night though :)
Posted by: Saints On The Settee, Oxford on 3:55pm Thu 3 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Jeff Le Taxi[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote: I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?[/quote] I was just thinking the same thing! id love to return to the exciting attacking football of the 80s The more i hear from Poortvliet the more i like the man![/quote] Agree!
Starting to get the 'Class of 84' vibe.
Come on you [italic][bold]SAINTS![/bold][/italic]
Jeff Le Taxi wrote:
Condor Man wrote: I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?
I was just thinking the same thing! id love to return to the exciting attacking football of the 80s The more i hear from Poortvliet the more i like the man!
Agree!
Starting to get the 'Class of 84' vibe.
Come on you
SAINTS! Posted by: Feeling Opressed, Southampton on 3:57pm Thu 3 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Barnacle Bill[/bold] wrote:
Have you got your tickets for Claus's testimonial yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Saints style. [/quote] Yes I have! Stop your nagging!
Barnacle Bill wrote:
Have you got your tickets for Claus's testimonial yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Saints style.
Yes I have! Stop your nagging!
Posted by: Lincoln Saint, Chapel stand on 5:46pm Thu 3 Jul 08
I agree with Condor man and am looking forward to next season however I am still not hearing about Skacel and Rasiak! Have I missed something? As for the lady with the baby, what a load of tosh! Does it take 2 to look after a baby? Do you not have relatives? I live in Lincoln and have 5 kids the youngest being 4 months old. I am a season ticket holder and never miss a home or away match. Do you live in Southampton? Must be nice to have a short hop home after home games! I will be at Claus' testimonial aswell as at Cheltenham etc... for pre season. Get yaself down to SM and applaud a pro and a true gentleman. COYR
I agree with Condor man and am looking forward to next season however I am still not hearing about Skacel and Rasiak! Have I missed something? As for the lady with the baby, what a load of tosh! Does it take 2 to look after a baby? Do you not have relatives? I live in Lincoln and have 5 kids the youngest being 4 months old. I am a season ticket holder and never miss a home or away match. Do you live in Southampton? Must be nice to have a short hop home after home games! I will be at Claus' testimonial aswell as at Cheltenham etc... for pre season. Get yaself down to SM and applaud a pro and a true gentleman. COYR
Posted by: The Major, The Regiment on 8:02pm Thu 3 Jul 08
[quote][bold]titanic[/bold] wrote:
Amateur manager with amateur players, well done director of football rupert lowe. As for Wilde being football chairman what a farce. Stay in Jersey and out of SMS.[/quote] Stand to attention titanic,
I think you are getting mixed up with last season,this season reads.Professional Manager,with Professional players,followed by two Professional people,Lowe and Wilde.
Stand Easy My Lad
The Major
titanic wrote:
Amateur manager with amateur players, well done director of football rupert lowe. As for Wilde being football chairman what a farce. Stay in Jersey and out of SMS.
Stand to attention titanic,
I think you are getting mixed up with last season,this season reads.Professional Manager,with Professional players,followed by two Professional people,Lowe and Wilde.
Stand Easy My Lad
The Major
Posted by: Condor Man, Southampton on 8:32pm Thu 3 Jul 08
this time last season we were losing players in key positions but not replacing them. Burley played good football but there were too many players playing out of position. I hope Poortvliet is more focused on training, fitness and discipline as our season died shortly after the 4-0 win against Hull last year and they ended up getting promoted.
this time last season we were losing players in key positions but not replacing them. Burley played good football but there were too many players playing out of position. I hope Poortvliet is more focused on training, fitness and discipline as our season died shortly after the 4-0 win against Hull last year and they ended up getting promoted.
Posted by: Barnacle Bill, Somewhere on the high seas on 12:20am Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Feeling Opressed[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Barnacle Bill[/bold] wrote: Have you got your tickets for Claus's testimonial yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Saints style. [/quote] Yes I have! Stop your nagging![/quote] If there is a poor turn out for Claus every Saints fan should bow his or her head in shame. Get down and get your tickets now. Claus deserves your support. If you think I am nagging you should live with Mrs Barnacle. Why do you think I spend so much time on the high seas?
Feeling Opressed wrote:
Barnacle Bill wrote: Have you got your tickets for Claus's testimonial yet? No! Then you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and get them now and let us send him off in true Saints style.
Yes I have! Stop your nagging!
If there is a poor turn out for Claus every Saints fan should bow his or her head in shame. Get down and get your tickets now. Claus deserves your support. If you think I am nagging you should live with Mrs Barnacle. Why do you think I spend so much time on the high seas?
Posted by: James Spake, Sholing on 12:24am Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote:
I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?[/quote] I respect your opinon yeah we should mix the old with the new. Mattew Le tissier was my hero, The men you quoted lived and breathed the club these bunch don't know what the clubs history. Lowes penny pinching will cost us, If will don't get to the prem saints could be NO MORE! who will we support then? Thats what the doom and gloom is about.[quote]quote[/quote]
Condor Man wrote:
I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?
I respect your opinon yeah we should mix the old with the new. Mattew Le tissier was my hero, The men you quoted lived and breathed the club these bunch don't know what the clubs history. Lowes penny pinching will cost us, If will don't get to the prem saints could be NO MORE! who will we support then? Thats what the doom and gloom is about.
quote
Posted by: stripey on 7:09am Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Lincoln Saint[/bold] wrote:
I agree with Condor man and am looking forward to next season however I am still not hearing about Skacel and Rasiak! Have I missed something? As for the lady with the baby, what a load of tosh! Does it take 2 to look after a baby? Do you not have relatives? I live in Lincoln and have 5 kids the youngest being 4 months old. I am a season ticket holder and never miss a home or away match. Do you live in Southampton? Must be nice to have a short hop home after home games! I will be at Claus' testimonial aswell as at Cheltenham etc... for pre season. Get yaself down to SM and applaud a pro and a true gentleman. COYR[/quote] well said about the lady with the baby. We've all got families and while its good to have a routine with young ones you cant be too regimented "Can't do that on 18 July cos I've got to bath the baby then" sounds a bit like "I won't be able to make love Saturday night darling beacause you know I usually have a headache on Saturdays!" or "Can't come out next Saturday, I'm doing my hair that night." Come on girl be flexible and live a little! Having a baby doesn't mean the world has got to stop you know. You owe it to yourself. Get out and buy the tickets. Worry about how you'll both get there later. Take babe if you have to or one of you stay behind and give the other a break. It'll do your relationship the world of good.
Lincoln Saint wrote:
I agree with Condor man and am looking forward to next season however I am still not hearing about Skacel and Rasiak! Have I missed something? As for the lady with the baby, what a load of tosh! Does it take 2 to look after a baby? Do you not have relatives? I live in Lincoln and have 5 kids the youngest being 4 months old. I am a season ticket holder and never miss a home or away match. Do you live in Southampton? Must be nice to have a short hop home after home games! I will be at Claus' testimonial aswell as at Cheltenham etc... for pre season. Get yaself down to SM and applaud a pro and a true gentleman. COYR
well said about the lady with the baby. We've all got families and while its good to have a routine with young ones you cant be too regimented "Can't do that on 18 July cos I've got to bath the baby then" sounds a bit like "I won't be able to make love Saturday night darling beacause you know I usually have a headache on Saturdays!" or "Can't come out next Saturday, I'm doing my hair that night." Come on girl be flexible and live a little! Having a baby doesn't mean the world has got to stop you know. You owe it to yourself. Get out and buy the tickets. Worry about how you'll both get there later. Take babe if you have to or one of you stay behind and give the other a break. It'll do your relationship the world of good.
Posted by: sailor sam, portsmouth on 7:59am Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]James Spake[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote: I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?[/quote] I respect your opinon yeah we should mix the old with the new. Mattew Le tissier was my hero, The men you quoted lived and breathed the club these bunch don't know what the clubs history. Lowes penny pinching will cost us, If will don't get to the prem saints could be NO MORE! who will we support then? Thats what the doom and gloom is about.[quote]quote[/quote] [/quote] Do you really believe that the Wallace brothers and Shearer 'lived and breathed' SFC? Le Tissier, yes, but the Wallaces and Shearer! The Wallaces 'flew the coop' at the earliest opportunity, and if Shearer 'lives and breathes' any football club, it is Newcastle United.
James Spake wrote:
Condor Man wrote: I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?
I respect your opinon yeah we should mix the old with the new. Mattew Le tissier was my hero, The men you quoted lived and breathed the club these bunch don't know what the clubs history. Lowes penny pinching will cost us, If will don't get to the prem saints could be NO MORE! who will we support then? Thats what the doom and gloom is about.quote
Do you really believe that the Wallace brothers and Shearer 'lived and breathed' SFC? Le Tissier, yes, but the Wallaces and Shearer! The Wallaces 'flew the coop' at the earliest opportunity, and if Shearer 'lives and breathes' any football club, it is Newcastle United.
Posted by: D, SOUTH on 9:52am Fri 4 Jul 08
Why not release our consistantly poor goal keeper, who will again no doubt be our No.1 mistake maker and give our defence a bad record!
Why not release our consistantly poor goal keeper, who will again no doubt be our No.1 mistake maker and give our defence a bad record!
Posted by: billy 2 baps, Waiting for my whistle on 10:01am Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Lincoln Saint[/bold] wrote:
I agree with Condor man and am looking forward to next season however I am still not hearing about Skacel and Rasiak! Have I missed something? As for the lady with the baby, what a load of tosh! Does it take 2 to look after a baby? Do you not have relatives? I live in Lincoln and have 5 kids the youngest being 4 months old. I am a season ticket holder and never miss a home or away match. Do you live in Southampton? Must be nice to have a short hop home after home games! I will be at Claus' testimonial aswell as at Cheltenham etc... for pre season. Get yaself down to SM and applaud a pro and a true gentleman. COYR[/quote] Your wifes one lucky lady
Lincoln Saint wrote:
I agree with Condor man and am looking forward to next season however I am still not hearing about Skacel and Rasiak! Have I missed something? As for the lady with the baby, what a load of tosh! Does it take 2 to look after a baby? Do you not have relatives? I live in Lincoln and have 5 kids the youngest being 4 months old. I am a season ticket holder and never miss a home or away match. Do you live in Southampton? Must be nice to have a short hop home after home games! I will be at Claus' testimonial aswell as at Cheltenham etc... for pre season. Get yaself down to SM and applaud a pro and a true gentleman. COYR
Your wifes one lucky lady
Posted by: Osama Bin Laden, A Cave far far away on 12:50pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Problem is it is a square shape into a round hole
Problem is it is a square shape into a round hole
Posted by: NC Fan for Life, Chandlers Ford on 5:33pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Disagree with you "Positive"
The squad is far from being balanced. No left or right full backs, little cover in central of defence.
Also short of quality in midfield and up front if the reported players are being sold; Safri, Surman, Viafara, Saganoski, Rasiak and Skacel.
Disagree with you "Positive"
The squad is far from being balanced. No left or right full backs, little cover in central of defence.
Also short of quality in midfield and up front if the reported players are being sold; Safri, Surman, Viafara, Saganoski, Rasiak and Skacel.
Posted by: Keith S., Toronto on 11:11pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote:
I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn\\\'t Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can\\\'t afford to buy overrated players anymore?[/quote] Good point, I grew up watching the likes of McGrath,Davies,Chann
on,Paine,Sydenham,Ho
llywood,Gabriel with Ted Bates as the Boss,
and in the 83/84 season we were Runners up in the old Div 1 we had a mix of old (Worthington,Mills,A
rmstrong,Shilton.) and young(Moran,Williams
,Waldron,Danny Wallace)
Condor Man wrote:
I grew up watching Le Tiss, the Wallaces, Shearer, Dodd, Benali, Maddison, Widdrington and Kenna. Why shouldn't Lancashire, Lallana, Gillet et al have the same impact? In 1990 we finished 7th in the old 1st division with a team of youngsters mixed with old heads like Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill and Russell Osman. Why the doom and gloom because we can't afford to buy overrated players anymore?
Good point, I grew up watching the likes of McGrath,Davies,Chann
on,Paine,Sydenham,Ho
llywood,Gabriel with Ted Bates as the Boss,
and in the 83/84 season we were Runners up in the old Div 1 we had a mix of old (Worthington,Mills,A
rmstrong,Shilton.) and young(Moran,Williams
,Waldron,Danny Wallace)
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