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VT site homes scheme: 1,000 object
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| VISION: An artist's impression of the Woolston development |
CONTROVERSIAL plans to build 1,650 homes on the former Vosper Thornycroft site in Southampton have attracted more than 1,000 objections.
Council planners revealed the figure as campaigners prepare to take to the street in protest at the proposed £500m development for the Woolston riverside.
Complaints
It is thought to be one of the highest numbers of complaints the council has ever received about a planning application - only rivalled when Saints revealed plans for St Mary's Stadium.
The development, dubbed Centenary Quay, also includes a hotel, public plaza and a supermarket, and three waterfront apartment towers rising up to 25 storeys.
Hundreds of residents will parade through the city centre tomorrow afternoon before handing a detailed objection to the council's planning chief and new mayor, Councillor Brian Parnell.
Andrew Middleton, chairman of the development section of Woolston Community Association (WCA), which has spearheaded the campaign, said the chief objection was the number of homes.
"It is ridiculous to impose one of the highest housing densities in the world on a suburb like Woolston. It will ruin Woolston."
He added: "Residents feel they are about to be subjected to a social engineering experiment in high-density housing, for which there are few if any precedents."
The detailed objection says there are too few houses (just 148 are planned), that the proposed 1,400 parking spaces - less than one per home - are inadequate, there is too little green space, and there is a lack of infrastructure to cope with up to 4,000 new residents.
There are also concerns the development will bring traffic congestion.
Labour ward councillors have said they will back residents' objections.
But developer Crest Nicholson said proposed junction improvements, cycling and car-sharing schemes and a water taxi will address such problems.
They added that the mix and number of homes was in line with council policy.
They added that the Woolston community had been "instrumental" in informing its plans and that "extensive consultation" had been carried out with residents.
The developer said it had "endeavoured to work proactively alongside Woolston Community Association and other groups to address their concerns."
A council spokesman called the volume of objection letters "considerable" but said the vast majority were a standard response letter issued by the WCA.
US boat-builder Palmer Johnson has also submitted plans to create 800 jobs by building a manufacturing facility on the former VT site.
It has been backed by residents and business groups.
The march will take place tomorrow from the Cenotaph at 4pm. The deadline for objections is May 22.
7:40am Thursday 15th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Woolston Resident on 8:16am Thu 15 May 08
I hope the council ignore this vocal minority and approve the plans. These NIMBY's live in the dark ages and what on earth has the Woolston Community Association ever done for this area? Nothing.
I hope the council ignore this vocal minority and approve the plans. These NIMBY's live in the dark ages and what on earth has the Woolston Community Association ever done for this area? Nothing.
Posted by: Jake, Woolston on 8:19am Thu 15 May 08
By ignoring them they'd be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot!
By ignoring them they'd be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot!
Posted by: Mike, Woolston on 8:22am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
I hope the council ignore this vocal minority and approve the plans. These NIMBY's live in the dark ages and what on earth has the Woolston Community Association ever done for this area? Nothing.[/quote] Perhaps if you'd bothered to come along to the meeting to express your views you'd know what the WCA does for the community? Don't sit behind your keyboard moaning about these people when they're getting up and doing something about what they believe in. They have a right to express their opinion and they're most certainly not NIMBYs
Woolston Resident wrote:
I hope the council ignore this vocal minority and approve the plans. These NIMBY's live in the dark ages and what on earth has the Woolston Community Association ever done for this area? Nothing.
Perhaps if you'd bothered to come along to the meeting to express your views you'd know what the WCA does for the community? Don't sit behind your keyboard moaning about these people when they're getting up and doing something about what they believe in. They have a right to express their opinion and they're most certainly not NIMBYs
Posted by: Jeff, Woolston on 8:24am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
I hope the council ignore this vocal minority and approve the plans. These NIMBY's live in the dark ages and what on earth has the Woolston Community Association ever done for this area? Nothing.[/quote] Woolston Resident, what you keep failing to realise despite having had it pointed out to you on these forums is that the WCA are very much in favour of the development of the former VT site. They're objeting to the high density, lack of parking and lack of open space provided against what was promised by SEEDA originally.
Before you come on here accusing people of living in the dark ages, perhaps you'd like to consider the facts of the matter?
Woolston Resident wrote:
I hope the council ignore this vocal minority and approve the plans. These NIMBY's live in the dark ages and what on earth has the Woolston Community Association ever done for this area? Nothing.
Woolston Resident, what you keep failing to realise despite having had it pointed out to you on these forums is that the WCA are very much in favour of the development of the former VT site. They're objeting to the high density, lack of parking and lack of open space provided against what was promised by SEEDA originally.
Before you come on here accusing people of living in the dark ages, perhaps you'd like to consider the facts of the matter?
Posted by: john, southampton on 8:34am Thu 15 May 08
whats really the great shame about it all is that the VT site was our great chance to open up the waterfront in a way to rival gunwarfe in pompey. instead all these plans do is cram as much money making flats into a tiny area as possible. unfortunately i think the developers will get their own way in the end
whats really the great shame about it all is that the VT site was our great chance to open up the waterfront in a way to rival gunwarfe in pompey. instead all these plans do is cram as much money making flats into a tiny area as possible. unfortunately i think the developers will get their own way in the end
Posted by: Woolston Resident on 8:35am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Jake[/bold] wrote:
By ignoring them they'd be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot![/quote] Actually, I did write a letter of support.
So, what have the WCA done for Woolston?
The WCA seem in favour of a development on their terms only.
Jake wrote:
By ignoring them they'd be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot!
Actually, I did write a letter of support.
So, what have the WCA done for Woolston?
The WCA seem in favour of a development on their terms only.
Posted by: Woolston Resident on 8:40am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]john[/bold] wrote:
whats really the great shame about it all is that the VT site was our great chance to open up the waterfront in a way to rival gunwarfe in pompey. instead all these plans do is cram as much money making flats into a tiny area as possible. unfortunately i think the developers will get their own way in the end[/quote] I don't see the comparison with Gunwharf as that is in the middle of the city with main dual carriageway roads running in and out of the area. If people never went to Ocean Village to shop, they certainly wouldn't come to Woolston to do so.
You only build leisure facilities if there are a large amount of shoppers in the vicinity. The VT site was only ever going to be mostly housing (the way the developer will return their investment), industry and a few local ammenities like a new library. The only part of the development I can't see the point of is a hotel.
john wrote:
whats really the great shame about it all is that the VT site was our great chance to open up the waterfront in a way to rival gunwarfe in pompey. instead all these plans do is cram as much money making flats into a tiny area as possible. unfortunately i think the developers will get their own way in the end
I don't see the comparison with Gunwharf as that is in the middle of the city with main dual carriageway roads running in and out of the area. If people never went to Ocean Village to shop, they certainly wouldn't come to Woolston to do so.
You only build leisure facilities if there are a large amount of shoppers in the vicinity. The VT site was only ever going to be mostly housing (the way the developer will return their investment), industry and a few local ammenities like a new library. The only part of the development I can't see the point of is a hotel.
Posted by: Henry, Woolson on 8:42am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jake[/bold] wrote: By ignoring them they'd be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot![/quote] Actually, I did write a letter of support. So, what have the WCA done for Woolston? The WCA seem in favour of a development on their terms only. [/quote] If you'd come along to the meetings to express your views rather than moaning about about the actions of people who give a **** perhaps you'd know?
This country is full of people who care less and less, don't bother to vote, don't have respect etc etc. At least these people are doing something pro-active about the future of their community and they're doing so in the right and proper manner, give them a break for goodness sake!
Woolston Resident wrote:
Jake wrote: By ignoring them they'd be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot!
Actually, I did write a letter of support. So, what have the WCA done for Woolston? The WCA seem in favour of a development on their terms only.
If you'd come along to the meetings to express your views rather than moaning about about the actions of people who give a **** perhaps you'd know?
This country is full of people who care less and less, don't bother to vote, don't have respect etc etc. At least these people are doing something pro-active about the future of their community and they're doing so in the right and proper manner, give them a break for goodness sake!
Posted by: SpinDR, Ocean Village on 8:47am Thu 15 May 08
What has the WCA done for Woolston? Can we have a list of 5 tangible things the NIMBYS have achieved…Woolston is a mess and needs investment; you can’t have it all on your terms so please be a little more realistic. The glass is half full not half empty.
What has the WCA done for Woolston? Can we have a list of 5 tangible things the NIMBYS have achieved…Woolston is a mess and needs investment; you can’t have it all on your terms so please be a little more realistic. The glass is half full not half empty.
Posted by: Gerry, Woolston on 8:47am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]john[/bold] wrote: whats really the great shame about it all is that the VT site was our great chance to open up the waterfront in a way to rival gunwarfe in pompey. instead all these plans do is cram as much money making flats into a tiny area as possible. unfortunately i think the developers will get their own way in the end[/quote] I don't see the comparison with Gunwharf as that is in the middle of the city with main dual carriageway roads running in and out of the area. If people never went to Ocean Village to shop, they certainly wouldn't come to Woolston to do so. You only build leisure facilities if there are a large amount of shoppers in the vicinity. The VT site was only ever going to be mostly housing (the way the developer will return their investment), industry and a few local ammenities like a new library. The only part of the development I can't see the point of is a hotel.[/quote] I take your point to a degree Woolston resident (it's about the only sensible thing you've come up with so far!). Building a leisure led facility would not be practical nor financially viable but don't forget the heart of this protest focusses on the densite of the housing and lack of parking. Time after time you fail to see this point.
Woolston Resident wrote:
john wrote: whats really the great shame about it all is that the VT site was our great chance to open up the waterfront in a way to rival gunwarfe in pompey. instead all these plans do is cram as much money making flats into a tiny area as possible. unfortunately i think the developers will get their own way in the end
I don't see the comparison with Gunwharf as that is in the middle of the city with main dual carriageway roads running in and out of the area. If people never went to Ocean Village to shop, they certainly wouldn't come to Woolston to do so. You only build leisure facilities if there are a large amount of shoppers in the vicinity. The VT site was only ever going to be mostly housing (the way the developer will return their investment), industry and a few local ammenities like a new library. The only part of the development I can't see the point of is a hotel.
I take your point to a degree Woolston resident (it's about the only sensible thing you've come up with so far!). Building a leisure led facility would not be practical nor financially viable but don't forget the heart of this protest focusses on the densite of the housing and lack of parking. Time after time you fail to see this point.
Posted by: Woolston Resident on 8:48am Thu 15 May 08
I probably would have come along to the WCA meeting if I knew it was going on. When did they take place and how widely did they let local residents know they were taking place? I've lived in Woolston for years and I've never had a flyer about the WCA put through my door up to the point that development objection letter was.
It's hard to attend meetings that only a handful of people know about. I went to all the public consultations that the developers put on, but not once did anyone from the WCA make themselves known.
So, I ask again, what has the WCA done for Woolston? I'm genuinely interested. Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?
I probably would have come along to the WCA meeting if I knew it was going on. When did they take place and how widely did they let local residents know they were taking place? I've lived in Woolston for years and I've never had a flyer about the WCA put through my door up to the point that development objection letter was.
It's hard to attend meetings that only a handful of people know about. I went to all the public consultations that the developers put on, but not once did anyone from the WCA make themselves known.
So, I ask again, what has the WCA done for Woolston? I'm genuinely interested. Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?
Posted by: Jack, Woolston on 8:52am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
I probably would have come along to the WCA meeting if I knew it was going on. When did they take place and how widely did they let local residents know they were taking place? I\'ve lived in Woolston for years and I\'ve never had a flyer about the WCA put through my door up to the point that development objection letter was. It\'s hard to attend meetings that only a handful of people know about. I went to all the public consultations that the developers put on, but not once did anyone from the WCA make themselves known. So, I ask again, what has the WCA done for Woolston? I\'m genuinely interested. Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?[/quote] I can only assume your dog ate the flyer and you’re the UK's least observant person. Flyers have been placed through doors in Woolston and posters advertising the meetings re: this development have been placed in virtually all shops in Victoria Road throughout the year!
You’re clearly not a regular user of Woolston centre….and I thought you wanted the local shops to thirve?!!?
Woolston Resident wrote:
I probably would have come along to the WCA meeting if I knew it was going on. When did they take place and how widely did they let local residents know they were taking place? I\'ve lived in Woolston for years and I\'ve never had a flyer about the WCA put through my door up to the point that development objection letter was. It\'s hard to attend meetings that only a handful of people know about. I went to all the public consultations that the developers put on, but not once did anyone from the WCA make themselves known. So, I ask again, what has the WCA done for Woolston? I\'m genuinely interested. Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?
I can only assume your dog ate the flyer and you’re the UK's least observant person. Flyers have been placed through doors in Woolston and posters advertising the meetings re: this development have been placed in virtually all shops in Victoria Road throughout the year!
You’re clearly not a regular user of Woolston centre….and I thought you wanted the local shops to thirve?!!?
Posted by: Henry, Woolston on 8:55am Thu 15 May 08
"Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?"
No, come along to the meetings if you're that interested, Idiot!
"Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?"
No, come along to the meetings if you're that interested, Idiot!
Posted by: Woolston Resident on 9:00am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Henry[/bold] wrote:
"Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?" No, come along to the meetings if you're that interested, Idiot![/quote] I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA?
You don't seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place.
I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future.
Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...
Henry wrote:
"Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?" No, come along to the meetings if you're that interested, Idiot!
I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA?
You don't seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place.
I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future.
Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...
Posted by: jiffy on 9:12am Thu 15 May 08
Well i suppose with the high level of imigrants weve had over the last couple of yrs they have to go some were.
Well i suppose with the high level of imigrants weve had over the last couple of yrs they have to go some were.
Posted by: woosltonian, woolston on 9:48am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Henry[/bold] wrote: "Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?" No, come along to the meetings if you're that interested, Idiot![/quote] I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA? You don't seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place. I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future. Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...[/quote] I agree with Wooslton resident. I have never seen or heard of this association and have lived in the area all my life. I too would like to know what you have done for the area.
Woolston Resident wrote:
Henry wrote: "Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?" No, come along to the meetings if you're that interested, Idiot!
I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA? You don't seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place. I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future. Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...
I agree with Wooslton resident. I have never seen or heard of this association and have lived in the area all my life. I too would like to know what you have done for the area.
Posted by: Marchwood Massive, Marchwood on 9:49am Thu 15 May 08
If you want to see how it should be done, go to Ocean Village ... oooppsss ...... perhaps not .... go to Gunwharf instead and see success of a proper marine development, or Port Solent .... Ding dong, soton is such a chavy place... init....
If you want to see how it should be done, go to Ocean Village ... oooppsss ...... perhaps not .... go to Gunwharf instead and see success of a proper marine development, or Port Solent .... Ding dong, soton is such a chavy place... init....
Posted by: Fred, Peartree on 9:56am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]jiffy[/bold] wrote:
Well i suppose with the high level of imigrants weve had over the last couple of yrs they have to go some were.[/quote] ....just when you thought we'd had our allocation of plonkers on the board today....
jiffy wrote:
Well i suppose with the high level of imigrants weve had over the last couple of yrs they have to go some were.
....just when you thought we'd had our allocation of plonkers on the board today....
Posted by: Nigel, Woolston on 10:03am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]woosltonian[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Henry[/bold] wrote: "Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?" No, come along to the meetings if you're that interested, Idiot![/quote] I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA? You don't seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place. I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future. Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...[/quote] I agree with Wooslton resident. I have never seen or heard of this association and have lived in the area all my life. I too would like to know what you have done for the area.[/quote] I fail to see what they're past record of activities has to do with the actions of the present. It doesn't alter the angle of their argument nor does it change the fact that owing to their pro-active approach over 1000 people are fully aware of the development and have done something about it which they wouldn’t have otherwise done so – all power to them I say.
Meetings are an open forum and publicised within the local community; of course they can never represent ‘everyone’s’ views but their taking an active interest in what they believe. Up the WCA!
woosltonian wrote:
Woolston Resident wrote: Henry wrote: "Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?" No, come along to the meetings if you're that interested, Idiot!
I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA? You don't seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place. I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future. Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...
I agree with Wooslton resident. I have never seen or heard of this association and have lived in the area all my life. I too would like to know what you have done for the area.
I fail to see what they're past record of activities has to do with the actions of the present. It doesn't alter the angle of their argument nor does it change the fact that owing to their pro-active approach over 1000 people are fully aware of the development and have done something about it which they wouldn’t have otherwise done so – all power to them I say.
Meetings are an open forum and publicised within the local community; of course they can never represent ‘everyone’s’ views but their taking an active interest in what they believe. Up the WCA!
Posted by: woolston resident 33, woolston on 10:16am Thu 15 May 08
The redevelopment at Ocean Village and the French Quarter has not worked the bank will be repossessing lots of overvalued properties where mortgage deals of overvaluation were arranged.
If it has not worked in these mentioned areas which are supposed to be more "upmarket" then it will not work here, we will have empty units unless they are all shifted to a social housing provider which could lead to problems.
This smells similar to the problematic City Island in Leeds where overvalued properties have left the place in a mess. The suburbs deserve suburban scale developments to integrate well into the existing.
The redevelopment at Ocean Village and the French Quarter has not worked the bank will be repossessing lots of overvalued properties where mortgage deals of overvaluation were arranged.
If it has not worked in these mentioned areas which are supposed to be more "upmarket" then it will not work here, we will have empty units unless they are all shifted to a social housing provider which could lead to problems.
This smells similar to the problematic City Island in Leeds where overvalued properties have left the place in a mess. The suburbs deserve suburban scale developments to integrate well into the existing.
Posted by: Laurent, Southampton on 10:17am Thu 15 May 08
I'm not against the project itself, but I would need a clear idea of the infrastructure first. Can the roads cope with the traffic generated?? Not sure! You can't build 1650 homes without modifying the infrastructure. That would be nonsense.
I'm not against the project itself, but I would need a clear idea of the infrastructure first. Can the roads cope with the traffic generated?? Not sure! You can't build 1650 homes without modifying the infrastructure. That would be nonsense.
Posted by: Woolston Resident on 10:20am Thu 15 May 08
I get the feeling that Nigel, Jake, Mike, Jeff of Woolston maybe one and the same person.
I was fully aware of the development as the developers have been issuing newsletters for years and holding well publicised public consultations, which I attended. I know the WCA don't have access to the funds the developers do for publicity, but I'm still struggling to understand how as someone who lives & shops in Woolston and talks with many neighbours and friends about the development on a regular basis, how the existance of the WCA was never apparent.
It is important to know what the WCA has done before for Woolston, because it would demonstrate they actually deliver something, instead of just being a talking shop.
I get the feeling that Nigel, Jake, Mike, Jeff of Woolston maybe one and the same person.
I was fully aware of the development as the developers have been issuing newsletters for years and holding well publicised public consultations, which I attended. I know the WCA don't have access to the funds the developers do for publicity, but I'm still struggling to understand how as someone who lives & shops in Woolston and talks with many neighbours and friends about the development on a regular basis, how the existance of the WCA was never apparent.
It is important to know what the WCA has done before for Woolston, because it would demonstrate they actually deliver something, instead of just being a talking shop.
Posted by: woolstonian, woolston on 10:46am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]woosltonian[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Henry[/bold] wrote: \"Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?\" No, come along to the meetings if you\'re that interested, Idiot![/quote] I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA? You don\'t seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place. I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future. Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...[/quote] I agree with Wooslton resident. I have never seen or heard of this association and have lived in the area all my life. I too would like to know what you have done for the area.[/quote] I fail to see what they\'re past record of activities has to do with the actions of the present. It doesn\'t alter the angle of their argument nor does it change the fact that owing to their pro-active approach over 1000 people are fully aware of the development and have done something about it which they wouldn’t have otherwise done so – all power to them I say. Meetings are an open forum and publicised within the local community; of course they can never represent ‘everyone’s’ views but their taking an active interest in what they believe. Up the WCA![/quote] Are you a politician?You are stil not answering the question! It makes no difference if you dont see the point of the question, it is still requiring an answer. I suspect you dont have an answer and that is why you are avoiding it!
If this is the case then just say so..
As far as this development goes, I think you have a low opinion of people if you think they would not voice their opinion if it wasn't for the WCA! In any case, I think that propaganda plays a big part in this protest and the WCA have helped them decide it wasn't the best thing for the community.
Nigel wrote:
woosltonian wrote: Woolston Resident wrote: Henry wrote: \"Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?\" No, come along to the meetings if you\'re that interested, Idiot!
I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA? You don\'t seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place. I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future. Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...
I agree with Wooslton resident. I have never seen or heard of this association and have lived in the area all my life. I too would like to know what you have done for the area.
I fail to see what they\'re past record of activities has to do with the actions of the present. It doesn\'t alter the angle of their argument nor does it change the fact that owing to their pro-active approach over 1000 people are fully aware of the development and have done something about it which they wouldn’t have otherwise done so – all power to them I say. Meetings are an open forum and publicised within the local community; of course they can never represent ‘everyone’s’ views but their taking an active interest in what they believe. Up the WCA!
Are you a politician?You are stil not answering the question! It makes no difference if you dont see the point of the question, it is still requiring an answer. I suspect you dont have an answer and that is why you are avoiding it!
If this is the case then just say so..
As far as this development goes, I think you have a low opinion of people if you think they would not voice their opinion if it wasn't for the WCA! In any case, I think that propaganda plays a big part in this protest and the WCA have helped them decide it wasn't the best thing for the community.
Posted by: Hedgender, SO30 on 10:55am Thu 15 May 08
I'm not from Woolston, Hedge End actually, but when I saw the orginal plans for teh development I was genuinely excited. I thought it was ambitious and forward thinking, the buildings would be landmarks for a City sadly lacking in landmark buildings. I understand now the buildings have been reduced in height and no longer go out into the water, a real shame! People say they want their City to progress and I thought this whole package (industry and residential together - people would NOT go to Woolston to shop) looked excellent, however there are always people that love to complain and keep their status quo. As long as these NIMBYs shout loud enough we will never progress.
I'm not from Woolston, Hedge End actually, but when I saw the orginal plans for teh development I was genuinely excited. I thought it was ambitious and forward thinking, the buildings would be landmarks for a City sadly lacking in landmark buildings. I understand now the buildings have been reduced in height and no longer go out into the water, a real shame! People say they want their City to progress and I thought this whole package (industry and residential together - people would NOT go to Woolston to shop) looked excellent, however there are always people that love to complain and keep their status quo. As long as these NIMBYs shout loud enough we will never progress.
Posted by: Mike, Woolston on 11:41am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
I get the feeling that Nigel, Jake, Mike, Jeff of Woolston maybe one and the same person. I was fully aware of the development as the developers have been issuing newsletters for years and holding well publicised public consultations, which I attended. I know the WCA don\\\'t have access to the funds the developers do for publicity, but I\\\'m still struggling to understand how as someone who lives & shops in Woolston and talks with many neighbours and friends about the development on a regular basis, how the existance of the WCA was never apparent. It is important to know what the WCA has done before for Woolston, because it would demonstrate they actually deliver something, instead of just being a talking shop.[/quote] You suspect wrong, is it too much to think that more than one person may disagree with you?
Let me get this right?! You’re complaining when they deliver something i.e this protest and over 1000 letters of objection and you’re complaining when they haven’t deliver anything in the past because they have no track record? What do they have to do?
Woolston Resident wrote:
I get the feeling that Nigel, Jake, Mike, Jeff of Woolston maybe one and the same person. I was fully aware of the development as the developers have been issuing newsletters for years and holding well publicised public consultations, which I attended. I know the WCA don't have access to the funds the developers do for publicity, but I'm still struggling to understand how as someone who lives & shops in Woolston and talks with many neighbours and friends about the development on a regular basis, how the existance of the WCA was never apparent. It is important to know what the WCA has done before for Woolston, because it would demonstrate they actually deliver something, instead of just being a talking shop.
You suspect wrong, is it too much to think that more than one person may disagree with you?
Let me get this right?! You’re complaining when they deliver something i.e this protest and over 1000 letters of objection and you’re complaining when they haven’t deliver anything in the past because they have no track record? What do they have to do?
Posted by: Nigel, Woolston on 11:51am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]woolstonian[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]woosltonian[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Henry[/bold] wrote: \"Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?\" No, come along to the meetings if you\'re that interested, Idiot![/quote] I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA? You don\'t seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place. I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future. Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...[/quote] I agree with Wooslton resident. I have never seen or heard of this association and have lived in the area all my life. I too would like to know what you have done for the area.[/quote] I fail to see what they\'re past record of activities has to do with the actions of the present. It doesn\'t alter the angle of their argument nor does it change the fact that owing to their pro-active approach over 1000 people are fully aware of the development and have done something about it which they wouldn’t have otherwise done so – all power to them I say. Meetings are an open forum and publicised within the local community; of course they can never represent ‘everyone’s’ views but their taking an active interest in what they believe. Up the WCA![/quote] Are you a politician?You are stil not answering the question! It makes no difference if you dont see the point of the question, it is still requiring an answer. I suspect you dont have an answer and that is why you are avoiding it! If this is the case then just say so.. As far as this development goes, I think you have a low opinion of people if you think they would not voice their opinion if it wasn't for the WCA! In any case, I think that propaganda plays a big part in this protest and the WCA have helped them decide it wasn't the best thing for the community. [/quote] Wrong - it isn't relevant to this debate and therefore doesn't warrant an answer even though I could easily give you one.
I think you underestimate people's action on such matters. The fact that the vast majoity of the 1000+ letters have been the pre-written templates as issued by WCA illustrates this point alone. People have free will to send the letter or not, a significant proportion have demonstrating local feeling on this matter.
AGAIN, WCA are not against this development (how many times!). Simply against the density of housing and lack of parking provided!
woolstonian wrote:
Nigel wrote: woosltonian wrote: Woolston Resident wrote: Henry wrote: \"Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?\" No, come along to the meetings if you\'re that interested, Idiot!
I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA? You don\'t seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place. I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future. Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...
I agree with Wooslton resident. I have never seen or heard of this association and have lived in the area all my life. I too would like to know what you have done for the area.
I fail to see what they\'re past record of activities has to do with the actions of the present. It doesn\'t alter the angle of their argument nor does it change the fact that owing to their pro-active approach over 1000 people are fully aware of the development and have done something about it which they wouldn’t have otherwise done so – all power to them I say. Meetings are an open forum and publicised within the local community; of course they can never represent ‘everyone’s’ views but their taking an active interest in what they believe. Up the WCA!
Are you a politician?You are stil not answering the question! It makes no difference if you dont see the point of the question, it is still requiring an answer. I suspect you dont have an answer and that is why you are avoiding it! If this is the case then just say so.. As far as this development goes, I think you have a low opinion of people if you think they would not voice their opinion if it wasn't for the WCA! In any case, I think that propaganda plays a big part in this protest and the WCA have helped them decide it wasn't the best thing for the community.
Wrong - it isn't relevant to this debate and therefore doesn't warrant an answer even though I could easily give you one.
I think you underestimate people's action on such matters. The fact that the vast majoity of the 1000+ letters have been the pre-written templates as issued by WCA illustrates this point alone. People have free will to send the letter or not, a significant proportion have demonstrating local feeling on this matter.
AGAIN, WCA are not against this development (how many times!). Simply against the density of housing and lack of parking provided!
Posted by: Doug, Woolston on 11:57am Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Hedgender[/bold] wrote:
I'm not from Woolston, Hedge End actually, but when I saw the orginal plans for teh development I was genuinely excited. I thought it was ambitious and forward thinking, the buildings would be landmarks for a City sadly lacking in landmark buildings. I understand now the buildings have been reduced in height and no longer go out into the water, a real shame! People say they want their City to progress and I thought this whole package (industry and residential together - people would NOT go to Woolston to shop) looked excellent, however there are always people that love to complain and keep their status quo. As long as these NIMBYs shout loud enough we will never progress.[/quote] Can I assume that you'd be happy with over 3000 resident's moving onto your doorstep where no plans to develop the infrastructure or provide parking spaces has been made? No, didn't think so!
It's not about stopping progress but making sure that the numbers of houses, parking spaces, shops etc is approriate to the exising area?
Hedgender wrote:
I'm not from Woolston, Hedge End actually, but when I saw the orginal plans for teh development I was genuinely excited. I thought it was ambitious and forward thinking, the buildings would be landmarks for a City sadly lacking in landmark buildings. I understand now the buildings have been reduced in height and no longer go out into the water, a real shame! People say they want their City to progress and I thought this whole package (industry and residential together - people would NOT go to Woolston to shop) looked excellent, however there are always people that love to complain and keep their status quo. As long as these NIMBYs shout loud enough we will never progress.
Can I assume that you'd be happy with over 3000 resident's moving onto your doorstep where no plans to develop the infrastructure or provide parking spaces has been made? No, didn't think so!
It's not about stopping progress but making sure that the numbers of houses, parking spaces, shops etc is approriate to the exising area?
Posted by: Woolston Resident on 12:00pm Thu 15 May 08
Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole.
1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ????
But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design.
So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?
Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole.
1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ????
But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design.
So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?
Posted by: SecretSquirrel on 12:20pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Henry[/bold] wrote: "Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?" No, come along to the meetings if you're that interested, Idiot![/quote] I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA? You don't seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place. I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future. Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...[/quote] You won't see them in the shop windows, most businesses can't wait for it to happen so why would they promote a protest.
I was a member of WCA for a year.
Apparently they have an annual bbq, the only other contact I had from themwas a curt reminder that my renewal was due.
Woolston Resident wrote:
Henry wrote: "Do they have a website where I can view minutes of their meetings?" No, come along to the meetings if you're that interested, Idiot!
I presume with your warm & open manner, you are the chairman of the WCA? You don't seem to grasp the fact that I would go along to their meetings if I was aware they were taking place. I use the shops in Vicky road regularly and have not seen any notices for WCA meetings. Perhaps I should look more closely in future. Still waiting for evidence of what the WCA has done for Woolston...
You won't see them in the shop windows, most businesses can't wait for it to happen so why would they promote a protest.
I was a member of WCA for a year.
Apparently they have an annual bbq, the only other contact I had from themwas a curt reminder that my renewal was due.
Posted by: Hedgender, SO30 on 12:29pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Doug[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Hedgender[/bold] wrote: I'm not from Woolston, Hedge End actually, but when I saw the orginal plans for teh development I was genuinely excited. I thought it was ambitious and forward thinking, the buildings would be landmarks for a City sadly lacking in landmark buildings. I understand now the buildings have been reduced in height and no longer go out into the water, a real shame! People say they want their City to progress and I thought this whole package (industry and residential together - people would NOT go to Woolston to shop) looked excellent, however there are always people that love to complain and keep their status quo. As long as these NIMBYs shout loud enough we will never progress.[/quote] Can I assume that you'd be happy with over 3000 resident's moving onto your doorstep where no plans to develop the infrastructure or provide parking spaces has been made? No, didn't think so! It's not about stopping progress but making sure that the numbers of houses, parking spaces, shops etc is approriate to the exising area?[/quote] Errr, since I moved to Hedge End 15 years ago an awful lot more than 3,000 people have moved in, the roads in and out of Hedge End are exactly the same. Also to compare them is ignorant, Woolston is a marine gateway to our City and as such has an opportunity to give the City a landmark development. The WCA seem to want it all on their terms, "less housing, more parking" - what proposals have they given rather than this vague statement? You say it's not about stopping progress so what are you actually proposing, maybe a low-rise scheme aimed at affordable housing that will have no impact on our City skyline. I'm actually interested as to what you and the WCA are proposing? Have you commissioned an architect/ Project team to look at a compromised way of the developers recouperating their investment and you getting what you want? I assume there is a proposal somewhere rather than a vague "not here thanks, less houses, more parking" arguement????
Doug wrote:
Hedgender wrote: I'm not from Woolston, Hedge End actually, but when I saw the orginal plans for teh development I was genuinely excited. I thought it was ambitious and forward thinking, the buildings would be landmarks for a City sadly lacking in landmark buildings. I understand now the buildings have been reduced in height and no longer go out into the water, a real shame! People say they want their City to progress and I thought this whole package (industry and residential together - people would NOT go to Woolston to shop) looked excellent, however there are always people that love to complain and keep their status quo. As long as these NIMBYs shout loud enough we will never progress.
Can I assume that you'd be happy with over 3000 resident's moving onto your doorstep where no plans to develop the infrastructure or provide parking spaces has been made? No, didn't think so! It's not about stopping progress but making sure that the numbers of houses, parking spaces, shops etc is approriate to the exising area?
Errr, since I moved to Hedge End 15 years ago an awful lot more than 3,000 people have moved in, the roads in and out of Hedge End are exactly the same. Also to compare them is ignorant, Woolston is a marine gateway to our City and as such has an opportunity to give the City a landmark development. The WCA seem to want it all on their terms, "less housing, more parking" - what proposals have they given rather than this vague statement? You say it's not about stopping progress so what are you actually proposing, maybe a low-rise scheme aimed at affordable housing that will have no impact on our City skyline. I'm actually interested as to what you and the WCA are proposing? Have you commissioned an architect/ Project team to look at a compromised way of the developers recouperating their investment and you getting what you want? I assume there is a proposal somewhere rather than a vague "not here thanks, less houses, more parking" arguement????
Posted by: Proactive and Informed Woolston Resident, Woolston on 12:31pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jake[/bold] wrote: By ignoring them they\'d be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot![/quote] Actually, I did write a letter of support. So, what have the WCA done for Woolston? The WCA seem in favour of a development on their terms only. [/quote] Why don't you actually read the plans for the development instead of believing what is put through your door. You're the idiot and you've just embarassed yourself. If you even had one iota of a clue of what the real development is going to be you wouldn't behave like such a fascist.
What has the WCA ever done? Organised this for starters! You probably work for Crest Nicholson or SEEDA lol.
Woolston Resident wrote:
Jake wrote: By ignoring them they\'d be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot!
Actually, I did write a letter of support. So, what have the WCA done for Woolston? The WCA seem in favour of a development on their terms only.
Why don't you actually read the plans for the development instead of believing what is put through your door. You're the idiot and you've just embarassed yourself. If you even had one iota of a clue of what the real development is going to be you wouldn't behave like such a fascist.
What has the WCA ever done? Organised this for starters! You probably work for Crest Nicholson or SEEDA lol.
Posted by: Proactive and Informed Woolston Resident, Woolston on 12:31pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jake[/bold] wrote: By ignoring them they\'d be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot![/quote] Actually, I did write a letter of support. So, what have the WCA done for Woolston? The WCA seem in favour of a development on their terms only. [/quote] Why don't you actually read the plans for the development instead of believing what is put through your door. You're the idiot and you've just embarassed yourself. If you even had one iota of a clue of what the real development is going to be you wouldn't behave like such a fascist.
What has the WCA ever done? Organised this for starters! You probably work for Crest Nicholson or SEEDA lol.
Woolston Resident wrote:
Jake wrote: By ignoring them they\'d be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot!
Actually, I did write a letter of support. So, what have the WCA done for Woolston? The WCA seem in favour of a development on their terms only.
Why don't you actually read the plans for the development instead of believing what is put through your door. You're the idiot and you've just embarassed yourself. If you even had one iota of a clue of what the real development is going to be you wouldn't behave like such a fascist.
What has the WCA ever done? Organised this for starters! You probably work for Crest Nicholson or SEEDA lol.
Posted by: Beardy Weirdy, Woodstock on 12:35pm Thu 15 May 08
How dare you insult the the great WCA! The WCA helped to co-ordintate the Solent Folk Festival in 2007!
There that shows their influence and power...
"the answer my friend in blowing in the wind!"
How dare you insult the the great WCA! The WCA helped to co-ordintate the Solent Folk Festival in 2007!
There that shows their influence and power...
"the answer my friend in blowing in the wind!"
Posted by: Resident, Victoria Road on 12:37pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?[/quote] 2
Woolston Resident wrote:
Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?
2
Posted by: Resident, Victoria Road on 12:38pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?[/quote] 2
Woolston Resident wrote:
Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?
2
Posted by: Hedgender, SO30 on 12:54pm Thu 15 May 08
Errr, since I moved to Hedge End 15 years ago an awful lot more than 3,000 people have moved in, the roads in and out of Hedge End are exactly the same. Also to compare them is ignorant, Woolston is a marine gateway to our City and as such has an opportunity to give the City a landmark development. The WCA seem to want it all on their terms, "less housing, more parking" - what proposals have they given rather than this vague statement? You say it's not about stopping progress so what are you actually proposing, maybe a low-rise scheme aimed at affordable housing that will have no impact on our City skyline. I'm actually interested as to what you and the WCA are proposing? Have you commissioned an architect/ Project team to look at a compromised way of the developers recouperating their investment and you getting what you want? I assume there is a proposal somewhere rather than a vague "not here thanks, less houses, more parking" arguement????
Errr, since I moved to Hedge End 15 years ago an awful lot more than 3,000 people have moved in, the roads in and out of Hedge End are exactly the same. Also to compare them is ignorant, Woolston is a marine gateway to our City and as such has an opportunity to give the City a landmark development. The WCA seem to want it all on their terms, "less housing, more parking" - what proposals have they given rather than this vague statement? You say it's not about stopping progress so what are you actually proposing, maybe a low-rise scheme aimed at affordable housing that will have no impact on our City skyline. I'm actually interested as to what you and the WCA are proposing? Have you commissioned an architect/ Project team to look at a compromised way of the developers recouperating their investment and you getting what you want? I assume there is a proposal somewhere rather than a vague "not here thanks, less houses, more parking" arguement????
Posted by: Nigel, Woolston on 1:04pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?[/quote] Yes, I would say 3% is mighty impressive actually. Compare this to other leaflet drops etc. a 3% response is superb.
In fact it's greater than this because they were dropped on a 1 per household basis and not 1 per resident.
My thanks for backing up my argument.
Woolston Resident wrote:
Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?
Yes, I would say 3% is mighty impressive actually. Compare this to other leaflet drops etc. a 3% response is superb.
In fact it's greater than this because they were dropped on a 1 per household basis and not 1 per resident.
My thanks for backing up my argument.
Posted by: Steve, Nr Woolson on 1:10pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Hedgender[/bold] wrote:
Errr, since I moved to Hedge End 15 years ago an awful lot more than 3,000 people have moved in, the roads in and out of Hedge End are exactly the same. Also to compare them is ignorant, Woolston is a marine gateway to our City and as such has an opportunity to give the City a landmark development. The WCA seem to want it all on their terms, "less housing, more parking" - what proposals have they given rather than this vague statement? You say it's not about stopping progress so what are you actually proposing, maybe a low-rise scheme aimed at affordable housing that will have no impact on our City skyline. I'm actually interested as to what you and the WCA are proposing? Have you commissioned an architect/ Project team to look at a compromised way of the developers recouperating their investment and you getting what you want? I assume there is a proposal somewhere rather than a vague "not here thanks, less houses, more parking" arguement????[/quote] All the more reason you should understand the impact this would have on Woolston. 3000+ residents to Hedge End over a period of 15 years. Hedge End with excellent traffic links and with development spread over a significantly wider area than VT.
Compare this with Woolston where development wil happen all at once, where road structures cannot cope and are not designed to cope (e.g. no motorway links), close to the toll bridge, in the middle of an existing residential area, flats rather than houses.
You're right, to compare them is wrong insomuch as Hedge End can tollerate this development and Woolston cannot!
Hedgender wrote:
Errr, since I moved to Hedge End 15 years ago an awful lot more than 3,000 people have moved in, the roads in and out of Hedge End are exactly the same. Also to compare them is ignorant, Woolston is a marine gateway to our City and as such has an opportunity to give the City a landmark development. The WCA seem to want it all on their terms, "less housing, more parking" - what proposals have they given rather than this vague statement? You say it's not about stopping progress so what are you actually proposing, maybe a low-rise scheme aimed at affordable housing that will have no impact on our City skyline. I'm actually interested as to what you and the WCA are proposing? Have you commissioned an architect/ Project team to look at a compromised way of the developers recouperating their investment and you getting what you want? I assume there is a proposal somewhere rather than a vague "not here thanks, less houses, more parking" arguement????
All the more reason you should understand the impact this would have on Woolston. 3000+ residents to Hedge End over a period of 15 years. Hedge End with excellent traffic links and with development spread over a significantly wider area than VT.
Compare this with Woolston where development wil happen all at once, where road structures cannot cope and are not designed to cope (e.g. no motorway links), close to the toll bridge, in the middle of an existing residential area, flats rather than houses.
You're right, to compare them is wrong insomuch as Hedge End can tollerate this development and Woolston cannot!
Posted by: Woolston Resident on 1:11pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Proactive and Informed Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Jake[/bold] wrote: By ignoring them they\'d be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot![/quote] Actually, I did write a letter of support. So, what have the WCA done for Woolston? The WCA seem in favour of a development on their terms only. [/quote] Why don't you actually read the plans for the development instead of believing what is put through your door. You're the idiot and you've just embarassed yourself. If you even had one iota of a clue of what the real development is going to be you wouldn't behave like such a fascist. What has the WCA ever done? Organised this for starters! You probably work for Crest Nicholson or SEEDA lol.[/quote] I have read the detailed plans and have actually discussed them at various times with Southampton City Council planning officer Stephen Harrison. Have you?
"Fascist"? I suggest you look that up in a dictionary before using it in future.
I can only speak for myself, but I am increasingly finding the tone of the WCA people to be agressive, dismissive and snobbish.
They can't even answer simple questions and have to fall back on insults and childish tactics such as accusing people who don't agree with them as working for the developers. How pathetic.
Proactive and Informed Woolston Resident wrote:
Woolston Resident wrote: Jake wrote: By ignoring them they\'d be contravening planning policy, all they can do is reject the objections. If you feel so strongly about this, why don’t you write a letter of support idiot!
Actually, I did write a letter of support. So, what have the WCA done for Woolston? The WCA seem in favour of a development on their terms only.
Why don't you actually read the plans for the development instead of believing what is put through your door. You're the idiot and you've just embarassed yourself. If you even had one iota of a clue of what the real development is going to be you wouldn't behave like such a fascist. What has the WCA ever done? Organised this for starters! You probably work for Crest Nicholson or SEEDA lol.
I have read the detailed plans and have actually discussed them at various times with Southampton City Council planning officer Stephen Harrison. Have you?
"Fascist"? I suggest you look that up in a dictionary before using it in future.
I can only speak for myself, but I am increasingly finding the tone of the WCA people to be agressive, dismissive and snobbish.
They can't even answer simple questions and have to fall back on insults and childish tactics such as accusing people who don't agree with them as working for the developers. How pathetic.
Posted by: Peter, Peartree Green on 1:12pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote: Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?[/quote] 2[/quote] The reality of course is that it's 0.8 per dwelling.
You do the math!
Add that to the cars using the supermarket, hotel, employment land, bars etc. you can see what it's going to be like!
Resident wrote:
Woolston Resident wrote: Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?
2
The reality of course is that it's 0.8 per dwelling.
You do the math!
Add that to the cars using the supermarket, hotel, employment land, bars etc. you can see what it's going to be like!
Posted by: Woolston Resident on 1:14pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote: Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?[/quote] Yes, I would say 3% is mighty impressive actually. Compare this to other leaflet drops etc. a 3% response is superb. In fact it's greater than this because they were dropped on a 1 per household basis and not 1 per resident. My thanks for backing up my argument.[/quote] No problem, I have a feeling its the first "argument" you have ever won in public (although I'm sure many would question if you have won this one).
3% objecting is not impressive.
How many people will turn up on this "march" tomorrow?
Nigel wrote:
Woolston Resident wrote: Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?
Yes, I would say 3% is mighty impressive actually. Compare this to other leaflet drops etc. a 3% response is superb. In fact it's greater than this because they were dropped on a 1 per household basis and not 1 per resident. My thanks for backing up my argument.
No problem, I have a feeling its the first "argument" you have ever won in public (although I'm sure many would question if you have won this one).
3% objecting is not impressive.
How many people will turn up on this "march" tomorrow?
Posted by: Henry, Woolston on 1:16pm Thu 15 May 08
Woolston Resident wrote "I can only speak for myself"
So do the members of the WCA, why do you assume that they're speaking for all in Woolston when they're not! They're just uniting in their views and quite rightly too. The voice of the collective is more powerful than the voice of the individual. That's not hard to understand is it?
Woolston Resident wrote "I can only speak for myself"
So do the members of the WCA, why do you assume that they're speaking for all in Woolston when they're not! They're just uniting in their views and quite rightly too. The voice of the collective is more powerful than the voice of the individual. That's not hard to understand is it?
Posted by: Nigel, Woolston on 1:20pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote: Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?[/quote] Yes, I would say 3% is mighty impressive actually. Compare this to other leaflet drops etc. a 3% response is superb. In fact it's greater than this because they were dropped on a 1 per household basis and not 1 per resident. My thanks for backing up my argument.[/quote] No problem, I have a feeling its the first "argument" you have ever won in public (although I'm sure many would question if you have won this one). 3% objecting is not impressive. How many people will turn up on this "march" tomorrow?[/quote] Tell me how my past record of winning arguments in public related to this please?
3% return of letter for a mailing is mighty impressive, you clearly have no experience of such campaigns.
The march will probably not have too many people on it I suspect. 4pm on a Friday isn't great timing, more's the pity!
Woolston Resident wrote:
Nigel wrote: Woolston Resident wrote: Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?
Yes, I would say 3% is mighty impressive actually. Compare this to other leaflet drops etc. a 3% response is superb. In fact it's greater than this because they were dropped on a 1 per household basis and not 1 per resident. My thanks for backing up my argument.
No problem, I have a feeling its the first "argument" you have ever won in public (although I'm sure many would question if you have won this one). 3% objecting is not impressive. How many people will turn up on this "march" tomorrow?
Tell me how my past record of winning arguments in public related to this please?
3% return of letter for a mailing is mighty impressive, you clearly have no experience of such campaigns.
The march will probably not have too many people on it I suspect. 4pm on a Friday isn't great timing, more's the pity!
Posted by: Irritated of Itchen, Itchen on 1:26pm Thu 15 May 08
I am very concerned about the development and the lack of houses - Southampton is already over-subscribed with flats! There is no infrastructure to support the amount of people they want to house in the area - no main roads to access the motorways and no main rail links. The only way into the city is over the Itchen bridge which is a nightmare for the local residential areas during rush hours and the buses charge more per person than taking your car. Fantastic news about the US boat-builder Palmer Johnson as Woolston needs more business' but, another hotel? and another supermarket is not required or wanted. What happened to the library? The council has shown a real lack of investment in Woolston over the past few years and it shows! I am more disillusioned by the development as each day passes!
I am very concerned about the development and the lack of houses - Southampton is already over-subscribed with flats! There is no infrastructure to support the amount of people they want to house in the area - no main roads to access the motorways and no main rail links. The only way into the city is over the Itchen bridge which is a nightmare for the local residential areas during rush hours and the buses charge more per person than taking your car. Fantastic news about the US boat-builder Palmer Johnson as Woolston needs more business' but, another hotel? and another supermarket is not required or wanted. What happened to the library? The council has shown a real lack of investment in Woolston over the past few years and it shows! I am more disillusioned by the development as each day passes!
Posted by: Sentient on 1:29pm Thu 15 May 08
Why does every discussion have to degenerate into name calling and point scoring?
I don't know enough about this development to form an opinion either way, but I would like to hear comments about WRA's previous involvement; it's relevent to 'Woolston Resident' so it is pertinent. It would also add some more credibility to their campaign.
What is the suggestion by WCA to improve the current design? No flats at all, or fewer?
I used to live in the area, and have friends that still do. Would be interested in genuine comments, not a pi**ing in the wind contest please.
Why does every discussion have to degenerate into name calling and point scoring?
I don't know enough about this development to form an opinion either way, but I would like to hear comments about WRA's previous involvement; it's relevent to 'Woolston Resident' so it is pertinent. It would also add some more credibility to their campaign.
What is the suggestion by WCA to improve the current design? No flats at all, or fewer?
I used to live in the area, and have friends that still do. Would be interested in genuine comments, not a pi**ing in the wind contest please.
Posted by: Kwith Oftergrass on 1:33pm Thu 15 May 08
Strange how its just the Woolston residents objecting, everyone else sees it as such a good idea......no NIMBYs there then !
Strange how its just the Woolston residents objecting, everyone else sees it as such a good idea......no NIMBYs there then !
Posted by: Woolston Resident on 1:36pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote: Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?[/quote] Yes, I would say 3% is mighty impressive actually. Compare this to other leaflet drops etc. a 3% response is superb. In fact it's greater than this because they were dropped on a 1 per household basis and not 1 per resident. My thanks for backing up my argument.[/quote] No problem, I have a feeling its the first "argument" you have ever won in public (although I'm sure many would question if you have won this one). 3% objecting is not impressive. How many people will turn up on this "march" tomorrow?[/quote] Tell me how my past record of winning arguments in public related to this please? 3% return of letter for a mailing is mighty impressive, you clearly have no experience of such campaigns. The march will probably not have too many people on it I suspect. 4pm on a Friday isn't great timing, more's the pity![/quote] I mentioned it as you appeared very pleased with yourself about scoring a point.
Have you had experience of other campaigns? Are you a serial campaigner? What other campaigns are you fighting?
Well, you've received very good publicity for your march now, so well done for that. Shame you didn't do as good a job with the initial WCA meetings.
As a public body, arn't you obligated to provide minutes of your meeting for residents to see? Where can I view them please?
Nigel wrote:
Woolston Resident wrote: Nigel wrote: Woolston Resident wrote: Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?
Yes, I would say 3% is mighty impressive actually. Compare this to other leaflet drops etc. a 3% response is superb. In fact it's greater than this because they were dropped on a 1 per household basis and not 1 per resident. My thanks for backing up my argument.
No problem, I have a feeling its the first "argument" you have ever won in public (although I'm sure many would question if you have won this one). 3% objecting is not impressive. How many people will turn up on this "march" tomorrow?
Tell me how my past record of winning arguments in public related to this please? 3% return of letter for a mailing is mighty impressive, you clearly have no experience of such campaigns. The march will probably not have too many people on it I suspect. 4pm on a Friday isn't great timing, more's the pity!
I mentioned it as you appeared very pleased with yourself about scoring a point.
Have you had experience of other campaigns? Are you a serial campaigner? What other campaigns are you fighting?
Well, you've received very good publicity for your march now, so well done for that. Shame you didn't do as good a job with the initial WCA meetings.
As a public body, arn't you obligated to provide minutes of your meeting for residents to see? Where can I view them please?
Posted by: PJH, Southampton on 1:42pm Thu 15 May 08
The Woolston Community Association actually post the minutes of their meeting through a lot of doors in Woolston. Unfortunately they are limited by funds and the good will of it's supporters to do so, therefore certain streets do get missed. In response to a comment above Hedge End is NOTHING LIKE the vosper site. It has great access straight to a motorway with loads of roads heading in all directions, and is a far larger area to begin with! It is not edged on one side by the sea, with the only main access to town by a toll bridge, a couple of quite busy roads leading in opposite directions. The rest have parked cars which effectively make then single lane most of the time! The WCA and the large majority WANT the development. But the glossy brochure from SEEDA/Crest Nicholson ignores the fact that the DENSITY of housing is too high. 3 large tower blocks surrounded by high density housing, and 0.8 parking spaces per HOME (which is ridiculous in this day and age when usually a home has at least 1, and usually 2 cars, and sometimes 3 if 3 adults live there) is not sustainable. Parking permits will not make any different to current residents unless they are policed late into the evening. I currently already have to park at the far end of my road or in another street regularly. If they do have a workable plan for parking with only 0.8 spaces per house, then no-one will buy them as they'll know they can't park!Sure, Weston has high rises, but they are surrounded by car parks and green spaces, not more high density housing! It will also affect traffic passing through, not just the local residents. Don't tell me a ferry to townquay will help either as 3000-4000 new people won't work either at, or near town quay!
The Woolston Community Association actually post the minutes of their meeting through a lot of doors in Woolston. Unfortunately they are limited by funds and the good will of it's supporters to do so, therefore certain streets do get missed. In response to a comment above Hedge End is NOTHING LIKE the vosper site. It has great access straight to a motorway with loads of roads heading in all directions, and is a far larger area to begin with! It is not edged on one side by the sea, with the only main access to town by a toll bridge, a couple of quite busy roads leading in opposite directions. The rest have parked cars which effectively make then single lane most of the time! The WCA and the large majority WANT the development. But the glossy brochure from SEEDA/Crest Nicholson ignores the fact that the DENSITY of housing is too high. 3 large tower blocks surrounded by high density housing, and 0.8 parking spaces per HOME (which is ridiculous in this day and age when usually a home has at least 1, and usually 2 cars, and sometimes 3 if 3 adults live there) is not sustainable. Parking permits will not make any different to current residents unless they are policed late into the evening. I currently already have to park at the far end of my road or in another street regularly. If they do have a workable plan for parking with only 0.8 spaces per house, then no-one will buy them as they'll know they can't park!Sure, Weston has high rises, but they are surrounded by car parks and green spaces, not more high density housing! It will also affect traffic passing through, not just the local residents. Don't tell me a ferry to townquay will help either as 3000-4000 new people won't work either at, or near town quay!
Posted by: Woolston Resident on 1:44pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Henry[/bold] wrote:
Woolston Resident wrote "I can only speak for myself" So do the members of the WCA, why do you assume that they're speaking for all in Woolston when they're not! They're just uniting in their views and quite rightly too. The voice of the collective is more powerful than the voice of the individual. That's not hard to understand is it?[/quote] I can totally understand that, but I'm not convinced about the credibility of this collective.
Henry wrote:
Woolston Resident wrote "I can only speak for myself" So do the members of the WCA, why do you assume that they're speaking for all in Woolston when they're not! They're just uniting in their views and quite rightly too. The voice of the collective is more powerful than the voice of the individual. That's not hard to understand is it?
I can totally understand that, but I'm not convinced about the credibility of this collective.
Posted by: SecretSquirrel, Up a tree in the Archeries on 1:57pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Woolston Resident[/bold] wrote: Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?[/quote] Yes, I would say 3% is mighty impressive actually. Compare this to other leaflet drops etc. a 3% response is superb. In fact it's greater than this because they were dropped on a 1 per household basis and not 1 per resident. My thanks for backing up my argument.[/quote] No problem, I have a feeling its the first "argument" you have ever won in public (although I'm sure many would question if you have won this one). 3% objecting is not impressive. How many people will turn up on this "march" tomorrow?[/quote] On the basis that you can prove anything with statistics, 3% is very impressive. It means it could be arguesd that [bold]97% are in favour[/bold] .
The statistics re the avreage number of cars per household nationwide being higher than 0.8. is totally irrelevant. Nationwide will include big houses with long drives, houses built where there is ample parking etc etc.
These will be new properties. It's not like 1000s of existing spaces will be suddenly taken away. Why would people who need spaces to park cars buy a flat that has no parking space ? They won't they'll buy one eslewhere.
I wonder what the ratio of cars per property is in central London for example, good transport links, no parking spaces so many people do without them. I would guess 0.8 per property is higher than the aveage there.
Woolston Resident wrote:
Nigel wrote: Woolston Resident wrote: Nigel, the more you step around the very simple question of giving us examples of what the WCA has done for Woolston, the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. 1000 objections from 30,000 residents = 3% of the Woolston population. Is that really a "significant proportion" ???? But your letter also objected to the height of the towers, which have been reduced since the first Sir Richard Rogers design. So, what density of housing should there be? How many parking places per property? 1? 2? 3?
Yes, I would say 3% is mighty impressive actually. Compare this to other leaflet drops etc. a 3% response is superb. In fact it's greater than this because they were dropped on a 1 per household basis and not 1 per resident. My thanks for backing up my argument.
No problem, I have a feeling its the first "argument" you have ever won in public (although I'm sure many would question if you have won this one). 3% objecting is not impressive. How many people will turn up on this "march" tomorrow?
On the basis that you can prove anything with statistics, 3% is very impressive. It means it could be arguesd that
97% are in favour .
The statistics re the avreage number of cars per household nationwide being higher than 0.8. is totally irrelevant. Nationwide will include big houses with long drives, houses built where there is ample parking etc etc.
These will be new properties. It's not like 1000s of existing spaces will be suddenly taken away. Why would people who need spaces to park cars buy a flat that has no parking space ? They won't they'll buy one eslewhere.
I wonder what the ratio of cars per property is in central London for example, good transport links, no parking spaces so many people do without them. I would guess 0.8 per property is higher than the aveage there.
Posted by: Woolstonian on 2:00pm Thu 15 May 08
As a Woolston resident and shopkeeper I would just like to say that if the development doesn't go ahead soon, the WCA will no longer have a Community to Associate with.
All of the traders I have spoken too are hanging on for dear life until Woolston gets the redevelopment we have been promised.
Those protesting at the number of cars have conveniently forgotten the 2000+ workforce a Thorneys who used to arrive and then leave at the same times everyday.
Please, please, please let the experts get on with the planning process and stick to organising your BBQs and Barn Dances.
As a Woolston resident and shopkeeper I would just like to say that if the development doesn't go ahead soon, the WCA will no longer have a Community to Associate with.
All of the traders I have spoken too are hanging on for dear life until Woolston gets the redevelopment we have been promised.
Those protesting at the number of cars have conveniently forgotten the 2000+ workforce a Thorneys who used to arrive and then leave at the same times everyday.
Please, please, please let the experts get on with the planning process and stick to organising your BBQs and Barn Dances.
Posted by: Another Woolston Resident, Woolston on 2:10pm Thu 15 May 08
I am very disappinted by this thread. Since the first post this has been nothing but name calling and both sides have been as bad as each other. I personally don't like the development as it is currently planned but believe development is important! I think there are too many flats and that there should be more houses instead and a lower density of housing. I'm not sure how local businesses will benefit however as they plan to build a hypermarket in the new development that will sell everything thus removing the need to visit local shops.
At the end of the day we can all agree to differ. Those against can march tomorrow and those for can also have their say. Please let us respect one another at least because we are all from the same community.
I have met the WCA and I seriously doubt anyone from them as commented on here since they are not inclinced to insult and most of them are old enough to not be familiar with internet forums!
Once again, please let us show some respect for each other!
I am very disappinted by this thread. Since the first post this has been nothing but name calling and both sides have been as bad as each other. I personally don't like the development as it is currently planned but believe development is important! I think there are too many flats and that there should be more houses instead and a lower density of housing. I'm not sure how local businesses will benefit however as they plan to build a hypermarket in the new development that will sell everything thus removing the need to visit local shops.
At the end of the day we can all agree to differ. Those against can march tomorrow and those for can also have their say. Please let us respect one another at least because we are all from the same community.
I have met the WCA and I seriously doubt anyone from them as commented on here since they are not inclinced to insult and most of them are old enough to not be familiar with internet forums!
Once again, please let us show some respect for each other!
Posted by: Another Woolston Resident, Woolston on 2:10pm Thu 15 May 08
I am very disappinted by this thread. Since the first post this has been nothing but name calling and both sides have been as bad as each other. I personally don't like the development as it is currently planned but believe development is important! I think there are too many flats and that there should be more houses instead and a lower density of housing. I'm not sure how local businesses will benefit however as they plan to build a hypermarket in the new development that will sell everything thus removing the need to visit local shops.
At the end of the day we can all agree to differ. Those against can march tomorrow and those for can also have their say. Please let us respect one another at least because we are all from the same community.
I have met the WCA and I seriously doubt anyone from them as commented on here since they are not inclinced to insult and most of them are old enough to not be familiar with internet forums!
Once again, please let us show some respect for each other!
I am very disappinted by this thread. Since the first post this has been nothing but name calling and both sides have been as bad as each other. I personally don't like the development as it is currently planned but believe development is important! I think there are too many flats and that there should be more houses instead and a lower density of housing. I'm not sure how local businesses will benefit however as they plan to build a hypermarket in the new development that will sell everything thus removing the need to visit local shops.
At the end of the day we can all agree to differ. Those against can march tomorrow and those for can also have their say. Please let us respect one another at least because we are all from the same community.
I have met the WCA and I seriously doubt anyone from them as commented on here since they are not inclinced to insult and most of them are old enough to not be familiar with internet forums!
Once again, please let us show some respect for each other!
